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POI question

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POI question

Postby Jenick » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:41 pm

I made a rookie mistake a few days ago. I have my .223 sighted in with 55gr hollow points. Not paying attention, grabbed fmj rounds on my way out the door. Wouldn't you know it, 2 stands, called coyotes in within 125 yards on each one and misses. Next day went out to shoot each round to see what the deal was. Fmj rounds were nearly 6 inches low compared to the hollow points. I've always seen an inch or two between rounds but 6 inches? Anyone else experience this? Fortunately I went back out the next night, with the right rounds and took care of business.
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Re: POI question

Postby Fitter » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:51 pm

Nice sleepy dogs. Good job!

I'm sure someone will have some tech advice or experience to share.
What you do in the dark will someday come to light.
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Re: POI question

Postby practice-more » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:39 am

You can never count on any two different rounds impacting the same. Often they will be close, but it isn't always a guarantee.

There are too many factors that go into play but here are a two that come to mind:

-Bullet Weight, Shape, Bearing Surface, etc. affect mv and retained velocity as well as bullet stability)

-Powder, obviously different powder charges affect mv, but different powders are affected by temperature at different rates too. Two loads that might shoot identical at high temps might not at low temps.

In my hand loads, I sometimes see a POI shift, not only in elevation, but in windage with just a couple .1's of powder variation or .01's of seating depth.
Rimfires are a whole different game, but as an example, I have seen a POI and accuracy difference in different Lot No. of the exact same brand/type of ammo.

I was doing some load work with a buddy last year and we played with several different types of ammo and a variety of hand load work-ups. At 100 yards, some of the factory loads shot as well as 1' to 3/4", while some shot groups in excess of 3". For reference, the right hand loads with this gun are around 0.6". Every type had a different POI. I don't recall any being as much as 6", but definitely 3" to 4". I think short barrels and gas operated guns may exaggerate this too. I'm not sure what affect the can might have, no experience there.

Glad you got it figured out and put three dogs down though!

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Re: POI question

Postby Jenick » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:11 pm

Wow, thanks for all the info! I'm going to play around with some other rounds and see if I can start to nail down the exact cause. I'm running a sig 516 with very few rounds through the barrel and its kept very clean so I'm hoping to maintain great accuracy for years. I just need to find a good, consistent round for yote hunting.
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Re: POI question

Postby practice-more » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:55 pm

"Kept very clean" can be a relative term.

Semi-automatic guns need to be kept clean to cycle properly; however, cold (as in not warm from shooting previous rounds) and clean bores can shoot different POI than warm or slightly foweled bores.

It is just something you have to know. I have one gun that will shoot the first round or two from a cold-clean bore about 4" low at 300 yards and then put the next 5 in a 1.5" group in the dot.

If I am putting a deer rifle away for 11.5 months, it get put away spotless, but I know this when I take it out the next year and don't expect the first round to be right on.

My varmint rifle, which could be needed at any time, stays slightly dirty. As long as it isn't wet, it won't hurt anything and actually helps accuracy.

There are a lot of different schools of thought on this, but "over cleaning" a bore can be worse for them than "under cleaning", especially if you aren't careful and diligent with your cleaning process.

You just have to experiment and keep a log to see how your gun shoots.

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Re: POI question

Postby Jenick » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:22 pm

Experienced issues again tonight but still sealed the deal thanks to the suppressor. I must have some issues with the ammo I'm using and am heading out again tomw to really start elimating all other possibilities. I was zeroed at 200, had a coyote at 125 and complete misses, twice. The 3rd kartwheeled him at a full run. Very frustrating since I routinely shoot out to 250 with the thermal. Steady rest, awesome trigger...
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Re: POI question

Postby practice-more » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:47 am

Every gun can prefer a different type of ammo. Hand loading can give you even more options for better accuracy.

One manufactured load that I have seen fairly good results across the board with is the Fiocchi 50gr V-max loads. I have shot them out of several different guns and they have preformed well for the money. I think I mentioned them in a thread a coupe years ago, but I don't remember which one.

My hand loads are more consistent, but the Fiocchi was pretty good stuff. It might be worth giving it a try if you can get your hands on some. I know the local dealer in Ashland has some, and MidwayUSA usually has it on hand.

Let us know what you come up with.

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